Comments on: Turkey & the West: Implications for Central Asia http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/ American Foreign Policy Analysis in Central Asia Sun, 23 Nov 2008 09:20:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=wordpress-mu-1.0 by: A Second Hand Conjecture » News Brief, Treefingers Edition http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2031 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:16:04 +0000 http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2031 [...] Allies go south! Bonnie on Turkey, Nitin on Pakistan—both spell trouble for the U.S. [...] […] Allies go south! Bonnie on Turkey, Nitin on Pakistan—both spell trouble for the U.S. […]

]]> by: The Conjecturer » News Brief, Treefingers Edition http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2030 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:14:42 +0000 http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2030 [...] Allies go south! Bonnie on Turkey, Nitin on Pakistan—both spell trouble for the U.S. [...] […] Allies go south! Bonnie on Turkey, Nitin on Pakistan—both spell trouble for the U.S. […]

]]> by: bboyd http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2012 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:25:25 +0000 http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2012 Dear Sylon and Leslie, The issues here of course touch upon delicate sensibilities on both sides, and the combination of shame, anger, and grief for all make this a highly charged issue. Of course we don't want to simplify anyone's suffering, in the past or today. But unfortunately this issue has become so polarized that it has been simplified in discourse and little remains for a resolution. As an Irish-American, I have been known to revile Oliver Cromwell, murderer, when having one too many, and proceed on down through the history of the British Isles. Somewhere in the middle I get out my Yeats. That does not mean that I don't look to the UK for many solutions and honor them for their many accomplishments. This takes a kind of emotional disconnect that is probably fairly complex in terms of brain waves, but allows me to feel sufficiently Irish while getting on in life and enjoying conversations with the British people I meet. I wish the Armenian diaspora in the U.S. and elsewhere would concentrate on developing a rapport between Armenia and Turkey rather than reinforcing the separation. Armenian-Turkish rapprochement would benefit Armenia incalculably, and Armenian-Americans are in a unique place to make this happen. Something to think about. Thanks to both of you for writing in. I appreciate the comments and the practical observations. Bonnie Dear Sylon and Leslie,
The issues here of course touch upon delicate sensibilities on both sides, and the combination of shame, anger, and grief for all make this a highly charged issue. Of course we don’t want to simplify anyone’s suffering, in the past or today. But unfortunately this issue has become so polarized that it has been simplified in discourse and little remains for a resolution.

As an Irish-American, I have been known to revile Oliver Cromwell, murderer, when having one too many, and proceed on down through the history of the British Isles. Somewhere in the middle I get out my Yeats. That does not mean that I don’t look to the UK for many solutions and honor them for their many accomplishments. This takes a kind of emotional disconnect that is probably fairly complex in terms of brain waves, but allows me to feel sufficiently Irish while getting on in life and enjoying conversations with the British people I meet.

I wish the Armenian diaspora in the U.S. and elsewhere would concentrate on developing a rapport between Armenia and Turkey rather than reinforcing the separation. Armenian-Turkish rapprochement would benefit Armenia incalculably, and Armenian-Americans are in a unique place to make this happen. Something to think about.

Thanks to both of you for writing in. I appreciate the comments and the practical observations.

Bonnie

]]> by: Leslie http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2011 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:48:39 +0000 http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2011 I agree with you, too, Bonnie. We've spent much of the last couple of years in Turkey and have come to love and admire the Turkish people - especially the ordinary working class and small business people. It's the Kemalists - the westernized, modernized ones - who are so insecure that they can't face the past. The ordinary people know that s**t happens to everyone and have learned to live with it. Our neighbours said essentially "Yeah, we killed a lot of Armenians and Greeks, but they slaughtered most of my mother's (father's, aunt's...) village so we're all a bunch of murderers. So let's call it even and move on." In Izmir an acquaintance of ours witnessed the slaughter of 10,000 Armenians when she was 9. Ataturk was present, and the whole foreign community was summoned to see what happened to enemies of the Turkish people. But that's not the first or the last time in history that it has been expedient to dispose of a lot of inconvenient people quickly. We have been able to forget if not forgive most of these slaughters. So I wish the Armenian people could let it go. Nothing anyone else says can ever make it better. I agree with you, too, Bonnie. We’ve spent much of the last couple of years in Turkey and have come to love and admire the Turkish people - especially the ordinary working class and small business people. It’s the Kemalists - the westernized, modernized ones - who are so insecure that they can’t face the past. The ordinary people know that s**t happens to everyone and have learned to live with it. Our neighbours said essentially “Yeah, we killed a lot of Armenians and Greeks, but they slaughtered most of my mother’s (father’s, aunt’s̷ ;) village so we’re all a bunch of murderers. So let’s call it even and move on.”

In Izmir an acquaintance of ours witnessed the slaughter of 10,000 Armenians when she was 9. Ataturk was present, and the whole foreign community was summoned to see what happened to enemies of the Turkish people. But that’s not the first or the last time in history that it has been expedient to dispose of a lot of inconvenient people quickly. We have been able to forget if not forgive most of these slaughters. So I wish the Armenian people could let it go. Nothing anyone else says can ever make it better.

]]> by: $ylon http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2005 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:00:19 +0000 http://centralasia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/10/19/turkey-the-west-implications-for-central-asia/#comment-2005 Excellent piece Bonnie! I very much enjoyed your thoughts. A lot of points you make here are valid and quite frankly, I don't see how aknowleging something that happened a century ago (by others in totally different circumstances-hey who knows who killed whom at that time?!) is supposed to bring resolution to anything. Let's suppose Turkey recognizes the genocide... then what? Armenia will start asking for monetary compensation for the lost lives? I don't really get it. This whole debate is too far-fetched, seems staged and is irrelevant to "here and now" problems. If Europe or the US really want to have an ally in the muslim world Turks are perhaps the only alternative left. That is not counting CA countries which (due to historical and geographical considerations) cannot be effectively bunched with other muslim nations. Pakistan is a mess, Afghanistan is too unstable and Iran is too theocratic to be friends with anyone. Alienating Turkey will increase the divide between East and West and that is a darn expensive price to pay for both sides. Excellent piece Bonnie! I very much enjoyed your thoughts. A lot of points you make here are valid and quite frankly, I don’t see how aknowleging something that happened a century ago (by others in totally different circumstances-hey who knows who killed whom at that time?!) is supposed to bring resolution to anything.

Let’s suppose Turkey recognizes the genocide… then what? Armenia will start asking for monetary compensation for the lost lives? I don’t really get it. This whole debate is too far-fetched, seems staged and is irrelevant to “here and now” problems.

If Europe or the US really want to have an ally in the muslim world Turks are perhaps the only alternative left. That is not counting CA countries which (due to historical and geographical considerations) cannot be effectively bunched with other muslim nations.

Pakistan is a mess, Afghanistan is too unstable and Iran is too theocratic to be friends with anyone.

Alienating Turkey will increase the divide between East and West and that is a darn expensive price to pay for both sides.

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